Some LDS Women Want The Priesthood? Well LDS Men Have Some Requests Too

photoI would like to thank the New York Times for breaking a story yesterday that highlights one of the biggest problems in the LDS Church; i.e., gender inequality. The article talks about a group of about 1,300 women who signed a manifesto for female ordination. 1,300 signatures. That sounds like a lot. In fact, if I write the number out with all caps and bold it, then it sounds like even more signatures: THIRTEEN HUNDRED. Wow.

[Side note: Truthfully, it's probably about 1,249 more than the number of people will read this blog post. But my blog has less than 70 followers on FB and only 50 followers on BlogLovin. So getting 51 people to read this post would actually be really good.

Full disclosure: my number of blog readers was a little higher until I wrote my last post about moms not playing the victim. After a post like that, I was just happy to see that my house wasn't set on fire. It probably would have been if any of the 1,300 women who signed the manifesto would have read my blog.]

But what does 1,300 signatures really represent? For ease of math, let’s round the number up to 1,500. According to mormonnewsroom.org, there are 15,000,000 LDS members in the world. Some simple math (on a simple calculator) tells me that the 1500 signatures represent 0.01 percent of the Church. But, you might say, men shouldn’t be included in that calculation because they aren’t the ones who are being oppressed (at least not in terms of receiving the Priesthood). So, for arguments sake, let’s cut the number of members in half to represent the split between men and women. Crunch the numbers and we see that the number now becomes 0.02 percent.

In the spirit of fairness, I decided to look and see how a comparable petition would fair with the US Government. And it’s not terrible. There are 313.9 million people in the United States. According to petitions.whitehouse.gov, in order to cross the threshold and be reviewed, a petition must receive 100,000 signatures in the span of 30 days. Unfortunately 0.02 percent of the United States population only equates to 62,780 signatures. In other words, it was a valiant effort but this petition gets rejected. I’m not saying the petition system is perfect, but it doesn’t seem to miss the important ones; e.g., the petition to deport Justin Bieber that reached the threshold in January of this year.

Other than the fact that Obama wouldn’t care (see what I did there?), we now know that these women only represent a small (dare I say teeny) portion of Latter-Day Saints. Loud? Yes. But small just the same. Doesn’t this make you wonder why the New York Times cares about a petition that doesn’t have enough signatures to make it to paper in the US Government? Let’s save that topic for another day. (Believe me, I have lots to say about the media targeting Latter Day Saints. Like, why is every other episode of DateLine about a Mormon who murdered his spouse or defrauded his entire congregation? Does that really only happen in Utah?)

So I propose that instead of focusing on such a bitty group of loud individuals, we should really start to consider the needs of the quiet majority. I’m talking about men. I believe that there is some gender inequality in the Church. But I don’t think it’s a one-way street. So I’m starting a list of requests that we, men, have all noticed, but until now, have been quiet about. (If you have any to add, then put them in the comment section)

  • How come there’s a mother’s lounge but not a father’s lounge? Women get to nurse and feed their baby in a dark, quiet room while fathers have to walk around the Church looking for an empty classroom or use the “stand-and-sway” method to put babies to sleep. Even if we find an unused classroom, we don’t have the rocking chair.
  • We want padded seats in our meeting room too. Do you know what men have? We have cold, hard, metal chairs. Are not all bottoms created equal?!
  • Male enrichment night. After we graduate from scouting, we get one, maybe two, activities a year for men. (Typically a shooting guns activity with BBQ.) But we want monthly activities like the women. Let’s even up those budgets a little huh.
  • Nursery for Elder’s quorum events. Women get the youth to babysit when they have an activity, but it’s expected that men should go to an activity without help. Do you just assume that our wives are always available to watch the kids when we have an activity? On the flipside, are you saying that men are incapable of watching the kids when the women are away to their activities? Either way, it sounds oppressive.
  • We want a nice table and podium in our room. Sure, we’re not known for our table decor when it comes to Sunday lessons, but we couldn’t even if we wanted to. We only have a small table with skinny legs. How am I supposed to display my tackle box and Singing Bass wall mount in style when I give my “fishers of men” lesson?
  • Finally, I want to propose an every-other-move ordinance where the Elders Quorum and the RS split all of the new move-ins and move-outs in the Ward. Your argument: men are stronger and can lift more. My counter-argument: women are more likely to show up and “many hands make light work.”

Again, I would like to thank the New York Times for pointing out the gender inequality in our Church. We have a long way to go, but I believe we can get there. One padded seat at a time.

[Update: There is no way to respond to all of the comments that have been made on my blog. But I would if I could. If I had the time, I would respond to all of you, including the person that said that this is the dumbest post that he has read in months. (To which I would reply, "You must have read a really, really dumb post a few months ago.")

I just wanted to say one thing. I realize that my post is dismissive to the topic of female ordination without showing any empathy. Sometimes feelings get hurt when a person tries to be funny about a topic that is dear to the hearts of others. The ironic part is that I was purposely avoiding discussing my opinions about the Ordain Women movement because I didn't want to say anything that would offend anyone. I do not promote blind obedience. Those women have every right to ask for the priesthood or whatever else they want. And we all have to accept the answer that is given. Whether it be yes or no. Let it be known that I would never encourage you to leave the Church because you feel oppressed. Let's be constructive and figure out what we can do if priesthood isn't an option. (Aside: I was a ward executive secretary once. I had to be at Church from 6AM to late evening on some Sundays. It was awful. I would have gladly given that to anyone who wanted it.)

One thing that I have definitely learned from all of your feedback is that there isn't really a forum where we feel like we can civilly express our differences of opinions concerning this or anything else. Hence all of the comments on my blog. (Anonymity probably helps.) So, by all means, continue to comment. I won't close my comment section even though some of you have called me a moron, an obnoxious a**hole, and other names. In the spirit of Stephen R. Covey's 8th Habit, I encourage you to express your voice. Continue to be respectful to each other even if not to me.** As for myself, I probably won't say much more about it because it kind of feels like beating a dead horse. (Crap, now everyone thinks I promote the beating of dead horses.)

PS: You can always move your debates to twitter. #datelinesucks

** Sorry Brother Covey. (RIP) There's just too much hate for this conversation to ever be productive.

Are you still reading this?  You should really read this.]

470 thoughts on “Some LDS Women Want The Priesthood? Well LDS Men Have Some Requests Too

  1. Haha I needed this. I personally feel that if any of those women understood how revelation within the church is received and passed on to the masses through the prophets, they wouldn’t feel a need to make a big spectacle of themselves. Instead, they’d be praying about it. I don’t remember hearing anything in our church’s history where a petition made any impact on the sacred gifts we’re given. I think the whole thing is silly.

    1. Perfectly said! And I’m a woman…who has never felt oppressed as a member of the Church. Will you please post this on FB?

      1. I have more than enough to deal with without taking on the priesthood. These women cant be doing their relief society duties or the duties of their home. If they want to take on the priesthood to.

      2. Hi Andy! I’m Bill, from the local kkk group. I love your blog, and I was wondering if you would like to join us. would love having someone like you I board!

    2. I really wish that you understood how revelation was received. Since Brother Joseph much of our current revelations/policies have been bottom up (rather than top down) revelations. If you could cite top down revelation is love to hear it.

      1. The list of top down revelations? Well how about every one of them in the D&C?
        The latest one is now OD2 which was received by Spencer W Kimball, at the time the president of the church. Sounds like the top to me.

        Nobody claims policies are revelations, ever. Maybe inspired but mostly the results of discussions at high levels. There is a hierarchy in church publications: 1) gospel, received by revelation and canonized in scripture, unchanging; 2) doctrine, teaching and explanations of scripture and other revelations, approved by the First Presidency; 3) policy, ways of implementing doctrine; generally created by general authorities, changeable; 4) programs, organized activities to accomplish policies, changeable, sometimes regional. All are top down.

        1. You should study church history a bit closer. (And no, Our Heritage doesn’t suffice.) Do you know Lester Bush’s research played a pivotal role in the OD2. That sounds like bottom up to me! (Not to mention the civil right movement in general.)

          But that’s only one example. How about others? Let’s talk about D&C 89. Joseph Smith was undoubtedly influenced by the concurrent temperance movement.

          Do you know about how the relief society started? The idea certainly didn’t start with Joseph Smith.

          And what about the temple ordinances similarity to masonic rituals? Joseph Smith was clearly influenced bottom-up there.

          What about the entire idea of a restoration? That didn’t start with Joseph either.

          The list could go on and on. Have you read Rough Stone Rolling?

          We all have a role in revelation. It’s hard to receive revelation without information. We all have unique experiences that provides us with information and God expects us to vocalize what He has given us.

          1. Just goes to show that anyone can have a voice in the church, male or female. The ordination of women wouldn’t necessarily change that.

          2. Are you aware that the temple ordinances are the same ones that were conducted in Old Testament times? Do you really think that The Lord would leave it up to a man to come up with sacred ordinances that occur inside a temple? I hope not. Yes there may be similarities, but also look at how far back the free masons go.
            You are correct though about the idea of the Restoration not starting with Joseph, The Lord came up with it ;)

          3. Technically, you are correct in saying that revelations are bottom up. But, is it a bad thing or does it indicate that there is a lack of divinely-inspired design behind it? No. Here’s my reasoning:
            ___God wishes to make ALL things known to each of us. The problem is that his children refuse to learn what has already been declared, and are therefore not ready for even more light and knowledge that will require and even greater level of faith and work to live up to and follow.
            ___Of course, in the beginning of every dispensation the Lord has to reveal large amounts of information. He has to in order to lay down the basics of the gospel and remove barriers caused by apostasy. Once this in made known to the world, there is little need for more knowledge, unless the people make themselves prepared to hear more.
            ___In my honest opinion, it is true that the Civil Rights movement precipitated and caused the “bottom-up” revelation you described. But not because the people made the church leaders make up some crap to appease the masses. It came because the Lord knew that the people were finally willing to hear and obey what he wished he could have told them 100 years earlier.
            ___God could reveal all truth today by angelic ministrations. He doesn’t because we will not live it. If you really want to further his work, LIVE his current commandments, BEG him for strength to believe in his promises, and WILLINGLY RECEIVE and seek revelation…..remember Moses – couldn’t get the people to be obedient so they had to get a gospel with training wheels and the Lord had to withhold tons of knowledge from them until they were willing to be more humble.

          4. “It’s hard to receive revelation without information”…so simply and beautifully put. And exactly what I needed to remember right now.

      2. I don’t think “bottom-up” means what you think it means. Yes revelation can come from above or can come from us seeing a problem and asking for guidance (brother of Jared, tobacco in the meetinghouses). The difference is that these were real problems that interfered with progression. Women not holding the priesthood isn’t a problem. God has already shown men and women how to progress. They aren’t being hindered. So women signing fake petitions to bring to pass some unnecessary thing is not how bottom-up revelation works in my opinion.

    3. I don’t think the church would write such a thing into the history. Maybe you are unaware of the “Let Women Pray” effort that occurred about a year ago. Before this campaign no women had ever prayed in General Conference. Many people wrote in to the church asking the leaders to allow this. At the next conference women began praying.

      1. And that effort has nothing to do with what the New York Times released… The comment is unfunded…

      2. Maybe you’re not aware that the speakers and those whom are called to pray receive that call well in advance and had already beened contacted before the “Let Women Pray” effort. Check your facts before spewing.

        1. Not true. They simply haven’t. General RS meeting is not considered a session of conference, and that’s the only general meeting a woman has prayed in until last year. If you are 50 years old I’m sure you’re also aware that women couldn’t even pray in Sacrament meeting until I believe the late 1970s.

          1. I think you need to do more research on Sacrament meeting prayers. We can all pray anywhere, any time. I often say a silent prayer where ever I am and I sure our Heavenly Father will not deny our prayers in our Conference Sessions.

          2. Looked it up to confirm. Women were allowed to start praying in Sacrament meeting in 1978. General auxiliary leaders were allowed to sit on the stand at conference in 1980 and it was 1984 when a woman was first invited to speak in general conference. The first general conference prayer given by a female was in April 2013. Source: Wikipedia Mormonism and women.

            I do agree we can pray individually wherever we are and always have been able to. But it is not true that LDS women have always been allowed to pray in meetings that include men. That is a fairly recent development. Kind of hard to believe that women couldn’t pray in Sacrament meeting during my lifetime but it’s true. I even asked my mom about it and she clearly remembered when it changed. Funny thing was when it changed, women weren’t happy about it because they didn’t want the responsibility of praying in church.

            It’s honestly not a huge deal to me, just serves to illustrate that policies do change in the church and some of these changes are good. I’m not opposed to more good changes (again, I will state as I have several times here that I do not want the priesthood, just changes to some of our policies and practices).

      3. And it hasn’t made one bit of difference! Who prays is only important to those who live for recognition. So silly!

    4. I’d have to disagree. There have been times where the members petitioned for some righteous thing, the Prophet took it to the Lord and received revelation. This process happened a lot for Joseph Smith.

      One thing I’ve noticed is that the Lord waits for us to contemplate a situation and then ask (petition) Him about it. He will then give the answer. Not as often does He come to the Prophet to give guidance.

      Of course, the situation with women and the Priesthood has been asked and answered. Just how much more responsibility do women want? It’s enough to sink men, it would drown women with the extra responsibilities they already have.

    5. I believe it is less about making spectacles, than it is about being heard. They probably are praying about it, but I think the idea is actually to get other people thinking about it and, therefore, getting other people to pray about it too. It is a pretty simple idea and a great way to introduce the ideas of some members to leaders. Revelation is often initiated by asking questions and sometimes awareness needs to be raised for the right questions to be asked (like the whole entire D&C). Just a thought. I think it is important to respect other people’s experiences regardless if we share them.

    6. “How Revelation in the church is received and passed on to the masses?” Hmm. Well let’s look at just two examples: Congress’s forced the church to stop polygamy (via new acts that dissolved the church). The civil rights movement prompted the leadership to eventually give blacks the priesthood.
      So I’d say their requests are exactly how revelation has been historically received. -general population first. -church leadership second. As confirmed with the recent essay released on lds.org regarding blacks and priesthood.

      1. Revelation comes from God. It comes in many different forms and it doesn’t matter what “prompts” it. Sure, the civil rights movement may have “prompted” the leadership to SEEK answers. We have to get our questions from somewhere! Upon seeking for answers, leaders were directed as to the direction that they should take. We should not remove God from the formula. There is truth found in all of these posts. The questions and the seeking can come from the bottom up, but the the actual REVELATION comes from God which is definitely top down. I would invite anyone who believes that the men who lead the church simply respond on their own to outside forces without seeking direction from God, the true and only leader of the church, to pray for understand on how God works with His church and with His children. I know that God will reveal answers to those who ask in faith and with real intent, because that is how He works.

        1. The US civil rights movement probably had some effect on the 1978 revelation. Far more significant was the burgeoning growth of the church in Brazil, attracting many members of African ancestry. At that time too, there was a great response to the church in Africa. Read the declaration. It’s pretty unambiguous.

          1. And the fact that San Jose State University and Standford both refused to play BYU in football because they were a racist institution…then the revelation came. Maybe it is the combination of factors, maybe not. Either way it was a good thing to change.
            All of you complaining about this and claiming that revelation doesn’t or can’t come from the bottom up need to read, how many times does it need to be posted, Mathew 7:7 it is very concise and direct, straight to the point, read it! Promoting more equality in the church will benefit everyone, men and women we are all in this together.

    7. I know first hand the scouting and YM budget is massive in comparison the YW. So that little rant doesn’t count. Go ahead and take your other requests to the top leaders. I am sure it would be entertaining to say the least. Followed with your SP requesting a meeting with you. In that meeting you will be told to do as your told and don’t rock the boat, they have much larger waves to battle right now.

      1. That is interesting since scout budgets do not come out of church funds but are paid for by dues and fundraising but please continue to believe that.

        1. LDS wards/branches only charge dues for non-member scouts (if they do that) and only do minimal fund raising. Only one fund raiser per year is usually the rule. So you are incorrect in this statement.

          1. No, previous post is accurate – scout funds primarily come from independent fund raisers or from scouts family. Only in situations where bishop feels the YM budget needs to subsidize cost of scouting activities or if a specific scout needs temporal assistance would church funds be used, but both cases are rare and on a case – by – case basis. . Generally speaking YW budget is >= YM budget on a per person comparison. Former finance clerk, ward clerk, exec secretary, current Bishopric mbr.

        2. That’s not true, I was a Primary President for 2.5 years and the Primary secretary for 3 years before that. The bulk of our cub scout budget came from ward funds and a little came from popcorn sales. The YM budget came mostly from the ward budget and not even half came from a fundraiser. Church members don’t pay “dues” to the scouts, the ward does. In the Church handbook (try reading it) it states that no activities that the Church puts on (and yes that includes scouting since it’s church sponsored) should cost the members money. So if YOUR ward is doing it differently, they should try reading the handbook.

        3. That’s incorrect. I can tell you from first hand experience that a large portion of the Primary budget goes to scouts. Fundraisers supplement the budget for camps and such but the ward pays for the charter.

      2. I’m in YW leadership, and I know for a fact in our ward, that our YM and YW budgets are the exact same amount. Split in half. YM are not to use that money for anything to do with scouting. That’s strictly for YM activities, hand outs, etc. Scouting money comes from sponsors and fundraising. They are separate. The experience you’re speaking of where you know “first hand” that “the scouting and YM budget is massive in comparison the YW” must mean you’ve had a bad experience with your ward. Every ward, unfortunately, sometimes does things different/wrong. Please try not to make a blanket statement about isolated incidences.

        1. Rebecca, I think your experience is actually the isolated one. I just spoke with my husband about this last week, in fact (we both have plenty of experience with YW, YM, and ward budgets in his case). The YW and YM have the exact same “per head” budget. There is a separate scout budget that also comes primarily from ward funds. And fundraisers…I don’t know about every single ward, but every ward I’ve lived in, the YW and YM do a combined fundraiser for their camps. The boys camp costs a lot more (like 4-5 times more) so the boys get more money even though the girls do equal work for the fundraiser. The YM/YW true budgets will never be equal until the church discontinues their relationship with the BSA. And as a former Primary president, I can attest that over half the total Primary budget goes to pay for scouts for the relatively small population of the Primary scouts serves. We gave our scouts and activity day girls the exact same amount per activity, but the boys end up getting a lot more because of the scout overhead. I have served most of my adult life in leadership in YW and Primary and this has been the case in every ward I’ve lived in.

        2. Well said. In our branch it’s pretty equal as well. We ask parents to pay for both scout camp and girls camp with 1 fundraiser each to try to offset costs. But if A family cannot afford the cost of a camp, that is handled on a individual basis. What many of these nay sayers are not getting is that church membership is voluntary. No one is forcing you to believe anything, they ask you to pray about it and find out for yourself if it’s true. Maybe the gospel isn’t for everyone. At least in this life anyway.

    8. How bout cause your church is so young? How many wives do you have? I think you are silly to believe the word of God comes to you through an elected official. You liken priesthood to cushions on a chair? I don’t see the resemblence. I hope that is the biggest complaint from your members. Sacred gifts would be golden tablets that just got lost. And another gift would be to spend eternity in God’s grace. Not thinking that I will become the creator and God of my own planet. NOT Christian.

      1. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, we do not practice polygamy. Being Christian means that you believe in Jesus Christ, who is the key part of our religion. Please become more informed on what we believe before you post things online. Please also visit lds.org or mormon.org, where you can learn what I know to be true!

      2. Cameron, you have been influenced by outside forces. You have taken a principle and not understood the context. I would advise you to get your information about Mormons from an actual Mormon and not your local pastor.

  2. I really do not understand why Mormons say that women and men are equal in their religion. When women do not have equal say in the administration of an organization, they are in no way considered as equal. I’m not trying to be rude… I just really do not understand the logic.

    1. Every member, men and women, equally can sustain or choose not to when the congregation is presented with someone new in the church’s administration. And when people are being considered for calling (positions) within the church (be it administrative or teaching), both the men and women presidencies consult each other. So yes they do have equal say.

      1. This may be accurate in theory but certainly not in practice, Have you ever been to a meeting where someone opposed the individual being put into a calling? Well I have and the entire congregation just looks at each other, the Bishop and his counselors didn’t know how to deal with it so they just moved on. I’ve been a member long enough to have seen this more than once. The men make all of the decisions they do.

        1. If a member opposes a sustaining, the bishop meets with them as soon as possible, in a discreet manner, as to not draw attention to that individual, and to find out their reasoning for opposing the individual in question. If there is a legitimate concern, the individual will not be set apart in that calling until it is addressed. Most of this happens quietly and is usually resolved without fanfare.

        2. They did what they’re supposed to do. No one really expects people to be loud and oppositional in a sacred church meeting, but if it happens, though it may take people by surprise (naturally), they take care of the matter in a more private forum so as to allow that person an appropriate and proper audience, and a chance to air grievances. It all makes perfect sense if you understand the dignified and Christlike way to handle sensitive matters.

        3. The Bishop just moved on because they have to meet with the person that opposes the sustaining privately to find out why. Did you expect them to question them in front of the entire congregation as to why they were opposed. That would have been embarrassing for them and the person being sustained.

        4. Who called the person, the bishop or the Lord. A sustaining is to say you will help and support that person in their calling. I has nothing to do with how you judge that persons righteousness or whether you believe they should be in there. That’s between him and the Lord. By not sustaining you are merely saying, Lord I don’t trust your call on this. Dan is right on the money with actions to be taken if there is a doubt.

        5. If someone opposes someone for a calling there is a followup in private to find out why they are opposed. It isn’t ignored. They just don’t make it a public spectacle.

        6. I to have been in those meetings and know that it is AFTER the meeting that the counselors go talk to the person in private and find out the reason and if it has validity

        7. That’s not accurate. They can’t do anything about it during the meeting. What do you expect them to do? After the meeting the go and talk to the person and ask why they oppose. If it’s a valid reason (worthiness for example) they reconsider the calling, otherwise unless it’s the majority who are opposing, they still listen, but if we were to consider that voting, one opposing person doesn’t outweigh 100 or more supporters. So they still set apart the person who they have called.

        8. This was a fun read, great work Andy. I don’t ever comment on this stuff but I really got wrapped up in the comments and a few things really stuck out to me.

          Its interesting how “mom” presents herself. It seems she has disdain for every process in the church. I wonder why she belongs. Its like she wants to change the church to fit her philosophy.

          One pattern that has been evident since the garden of eden is that God establishes a truth or a pattern then Satan establishes a counterfeit. This can be seen with the Law of Consecration vs Comminism/Socialism, lies told to Eve in the Garden, and now we are looking at the tearing apart of the family starting with the demasculinization (not sure if thats a word) of men and the feminist movement.

          I’m all about women’s rights and I’m glad that the world is changing to allow everyone an equal shot. The problem lies in the fact that these ‘modern’ women seem to want the world to cater to them. I encourage them to attend the temple, if they are not worthy then get worthy, listen to the message of the endowment, then pray about it and find out if its true. If its true then accept your role and stand in line with the rest of us in opposing those who want to tear apart the fundamental unit of society.

          Finally, there has been plenty of change brought about by women asking the prophet to inquire of the Lord. Emma Smith and the Word of Wisdom comes to mind. The prophet is aware of your question. Do you think he hasn’t asked?? Of course he has. Now listen to his counsel and see what has been said over the (nicely decorated) pulpit at conference. If you are truely humble (which your posts suggest otherwise, just like mine suggests I need to stop judging) then pray and submit yourself to the will of the Lord (also a man). The prophet will be speaking in just a couple weeks hope your ears and hearts are open.

          1. I have never gotten the impression that they want people (or church leaders) catering to them. I see that often in comments in reference to Ordain Women or feminists within the church. From reading their writings, this is about raising awareness and helping people see their perspective and much less about trying to force an apostle or prophet to do their bidding (which an apostle or prophet wouldn’t do anyways…so they can handle it). I might not agree with everything they have to say, but I would encourage you to consider that you are misinterpreting their intentions and take more time to understand where these women (and men) are coming from.

        9. I have your back on this one, Mom. In regards to women being given access to all of the Priesthood, we need only to look at the 1978 revelation that all worthy males were to be given the Priesthood. The prophet didn’t just wake up one morning and say, “hey, all worthy males should be given the Priesthood.” He had been contemplating the issue for several years as many other white people (probably only 0.01% of the members of the Church) spoke out in defense of black men and women who were not able to be endowed in the temples and for all men to be given the Priesthood. Revelation comes as members plead to the Lord and to the prophets and apostles, and thankfully we have a progressive Church (although painfully slow at times). As a prophet of God, Joseph Smith conferred the priesthood to black men and allowed black men and women to be endowed in the temple. It was Brigham Young who changed the policy, and it remained in place mainly because of cultural biases. Could it be that the only thing that is keeping women from receiving the Priesthood today is our own cultural biases? Me thinks, yes.

          1. Me knows, no. Site where in the scripture where a woman was given the priesthood. Where Jesus Christ laid his hands on a woman and ordained her. Show me. Show me where a duly appointed prophet of god laid their hands and ordained a woman. show me. Until then it just political correctness and not from god.

        10. I have seen it happen. They say, “Please see me after the meeting” and the meeting progresses as usual. The person meets with the bishop after the meeting to inform him of the reasons (it should be a worthiness issue) that they cannot sustain that person in the calling.

        11. I was some one who voted negatively once, they didnt deal with it right then but after the meeting was over. The calling was not given to that person, since my concerns were valid. I know every concerned member has a equally, i was 14 at the time

      2. Um, you mean when ONE person is put forth to sustain? This is equivalent to countries that only have one person on the ballot. And I’m sorry, in which quorum do women get equal say in the administration of the church? Elders quorum? High Priests? Bishoprics? Stake Presidencies? Area Presidencies? In the 70′s? Quorum of the 12? Where? Women get the chance to have a voice over other women (relief society) and children (primary) but the priesthood leaders always have veto power over even these voices! How is this equality?

        You may say that this is God’s plan, but so was polygamy and declining giving the priesthood and temple blessings to blacks. Those doctrines have been rescinded by the church, prodded by outside pressures. These are precedents to changing church policy. Why not change this inequality?

        And yes, I am an active member of the church.

        1. Do you realize that the country we live in didn’t give blacks much respect of ANY kind at one point? And while slavery has come and gone, the fact that the Church was late in giving blacks the priesthood still remains on every person’s tongue who opposes this church. Please, don’t take into account the fact that the church is lead by men, capable of mistakes, raised in this country and by a society that saw blacks as a lesser race– the attitude towards African Americans was not a pleasant one during that time when looking at the whole country!! Being someone of color, I can recognize this.

          Yours is a misguided plight.

          1. Thank you for your comment! It is nice to hear an actual African American’s opinion instead of what others think their opinion is, or should be.

        2. What kind of a person lists as many issues with a church as you just did and then still profess to be an active member of that church? You either believe the church is true and are only acting, or you are to big of a coward to quit the Church because you are afraid of what your active friends and family will think. Either way don’t blame a church that you say has so many issues when if they are true, you are dumb enough for belonging to the same group.

          1. Oh My Chris….your comment is why I hesitate to participate in this religion. True outburst of judgement as well as confirmation that this religion judges it’s members to the highest. “Don’t blame the Church for It’s Members”…that is what I am always told…then I read your comment…what an example you lead.

          2. @Just me – Where did Chris ever say that he/she practices the LDS faith? Looks like you are the quick-to-judge one to me. Digging for a reason to dislike the church much? I think so. You are in such a hurry to hate the church that you did exactly what you got mad at Chris for doing. Good work, hypocrite.

        3. Sustaining is not a voting process so the act of “Veto” is not needed. Decisions are made through inspiration and God oversees callings. Yes, all of us here are human and capable of making decisions that may not be his will, however, he is perfect and he will make it right in his way and in his time.
          If a man is asked to be in a leadership role over me that was not who God would have called there, He would make sure that the effect it was to have on my life would be presented in my life another way. I have no doubt that God is in control and that he allows us free will at the same time.
          Many of the revelations in the church that have come through the Latter Day prophets have come because a Women brought a concern to them and they prayed to God for the answer. God inspired a “women” of things that needed direction and gave direction through the prophet. Our tenderness may help us hear the Holy Spirit easier. The gospel teaches that if a man is leading his family with the priesthood in righteousness then he will be listening to his wife and he will be holding his wife higher than himself. If he is not then that is an issue with him not the church. so tell me again where is the oppression?

        4. You have misunderstood the reasoning behind these concerns that you presented. In order for us to understand the truth we must try and see things from other perspectives. If we only look at it in one light and refuse to look at in another then we not only deprive ourselves the opportunity to understand the truth better but we fall into a potentially harmful trap of believing our opinion or our limited perspective to be truth. One’s perspective could be partially true but can also be partially false if we don’t take time to truly understand all perspectives on the matter.

          A truth cannot be stated or believed as absolute unless it is proven unto that individual to be absolute…which requires an understanding of all perspectives not just settling for the one they have.

          1. PROVEN? Where did faith go? Not sure I follow you with statements of proof and not settling for things as true until you understand all perspectives. By that logic, I shouldn’t belong to any religion until I understand them all.

          2. Kind of like the doctrine of opposition in all things. We wouldn’t know good from evil without the both sides being evaluated. I’m not saying the women wanting the priesthood are evil, on the contrary, they are just expressing their freedom to say what they feel, like everyone else too. But, remember, god tells us their is only one way to him. It is up to all of us to figure it out for ourselves which side of this argument He is in favor of.

          3. If you don’t like the way the church is lead (by men) then why would you like Christianity at all? It seems to me that God is male and I never hear any mention of a Goddess to be prayed to or directing things or creating things, etc. Maybe you should belong to a religion that has a female god!

        5. Lyn9 is exactly right. Having served in several leadership callings in the church, I know that in the end, the person who always makes the final decision is a man. I can submit a name for the bishopric to consider, but if they don’t think it’s a good fit, that’s the end of the story, even if I was so inspired to submit it that it hit me like a ton of bricks. Talk to a Primary president sometime if you don’t believe it.

          No woman in the church has any authority over any boy older than 12. Nor does she have autonomy in leading an organization she is called to lead. She has little control over her budget (what she gets is decided for her and how she spends it is approved by a man), callings, etc.

          Some women are okay with this and think it’s just fantastic that a man granted them this wonderful gift to be a president – “see, I DO have power.” Most of us serve under bishops who try to do a good job. Try serving under a jerk of a bishop and see how much power you have, and nowhere to go for recourse because every.single.person who has any power to do anything about it is a man.

          And before you say go to your stake auxiliary president, don’t bother. They also answer to men and have no real decision making power. They are there to train and support, not administrate.

          1. “NO WOMAN IN THE CHURCH HAS ANY POWER OVER A BOY OVER 12 YEARS OF AGE IN THE CHURCH” — TELL THAT TO MY MOTHER WHO THREW ME THROUGH THE SHOWER DOORS AFTER MY 12TH BIRTHDAY FOR ACTING DEFIANT.

            NOT ALL WOMEN HAVE POWER, BUT REST ASSURED THE GOOD ONES DO!

          2. Your use of the word “power” is a good illustration of what is wrong with this whole argument of women who want the priesthood, and also the intent behind it. Some people have a need for more power, but the priesthood is not power over one another. Although abused by some, that is not the purpose of the priesthood, nor is it a part of Gods plan. If we would learn to love who we are as women in Gods church, as daughters of God, and servants of God, then we wouldn’t have this need for more power and control. Or as some women sneakily put it, “equality”. Sherri Dew says in her book, ‘Women and the Priesthood’, that any woman who wants the priesthood doesn’t have a full understanding of it. (Paraphrased, of course, as I don’t have the book sitting right next to at the moment.) Study the priesthood, it’s history and the unlimited acces we have to it as women before claiming we want more power and equality. Gain a testimony that you are a daughter of God, and find out what He wants you to do with that knowledge. “Who am I? I am a woman of God, a woman of covenant. What am I to do? Live up to my privileges.” -Virginia H. Pearce, ‘The Beginning of Better Days’.

          3. Lds women…you should have never served in any leadership capacity. I’d be surprised if you could receive revelation with such a bitter heart. And instead of bringing others to Christ…your bitterness may have led others astray because you planted seeds of doubt and anger.

          4. “I can submit a name for the bishopric to consider, but if they don’t think it’s a good fit, that’s the end of the story, even if I was so inspired to submit it that it hit me like a ton of bricks. Talk to a Primary president sometime if you don’t believe it.”
            REALLY, and you think that is because you are a woman. I have been and Elders Quorum President, Ward Mission Leader and High Priest Group Leader. In every one of those callings I have Submitted names that I felt very inspired to submit and have had them turned down. That has nothing to do with being a woman, if you don’t believe it ask any Leader (including a Bishop who may submit a name but is turned down by the Stake President, and yes I do know of such situations)

        6. I’ve been part of my ward council and the leaders of the Relief Society, Young Womens, and Primary are all a part of the decision-making. I think it is much more equal than one would think if they were to judge it just based off of the official titles of men and women. Also, there are elections all over the U.S. where only one candidate is on the ballot, in which you vote up or down. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retention_election

          As far as doctrine goes I’m not so sure we’ve ever changed it, but I’m also not sure that doctrinally only men are entitled to the priesthood. It does seem changes could be made to make things better for women. I think, for example, Bishops could invite YW leaders in for any interview with YW. But I still think men and women have differences, and it’s ok to play some different roles.

        7. I think it’s important to point out that before “one person is put forth to sustain”, many people are considered. Usually, the ward counsel meets twice a month to discuss the affairs of the ward including new callings among many others. That counsel includes the Relief Society, Young Women’s and Primary president. I have sat in those mtgs and have seen the Relief Society president influence and change decisions of the Bishopric, High Priest Group and Elders Quorum. Often times this is because she has insights about a family’s situation because of information she got from a faithful visiting teacher.
          I know that men are standing at the pulpit extending callings, making announcements and discussing policies, but don’t think that the women of the church did not influence those decisions. Similarly, when you hear an announcement in R.S. or primary, don’t think that the elder’s quarum or a male primary teacher did not have a say in the matter.
          You also mentioned that “priesthood leaders” have veto power over the women of the church. There is an important distinction to point out. I think you are referring to Bishops, Stake Presidents, Area Authorities, and the Apostles and Prophet. You are right to say that their is veto power, but that power is held by One priesthood holder and He directs all who have been called and set apart both men and women. Thomas Monson does not make decisions for the church – The Prophet of The Lord makes decisions for the Church. Likewise, John Smith (the man) should not be making decisions for his ward. John Smith, the set apart bishop and common judge in Israel, should be makin decisions under the direction of The Lord. The Lord has the final “veto power”.
          This whole inequality argument ignores the fact that the KINGDOM of God is in fact a Theocracy. This is the Chuch of Jesus Christ. But people are trying to take Him out of the equation and “blame” the men if the church for perceived inequalities. I can guarantee that any time you find a desire to take out Christ out of anything, especially his own church, that there is only one source of that desire.

          1. So which is it? Are callings inspired by God or are people deciding who’s worthy?

            Even Mormons’ stock answers contradict themselves.

        8. Don’t forget young women. I believe if you truly understood your religion you would understand why men and women play different rolls. I am now a very active member. I see where you are coming from, but until now I never understood why. Study, pray, ponder and I know with every ounce of my body that you will with faith receive an answer.

        9. I feel like if you truly have a testimony then you don’t need to question the “equality” within the church. There are many subject matters that we aren’t ment to understand and will someday be explained. These are a test of faith. Personally I’m relieved that I can follow the council of my priesthood leaders! We as women have enough responsibility raising families and doing our callings as it is!

          1. I agree I have always felt that my priesthood leader ship has always been kind and respectful. Seeking my advice in callings I have had. I have had a couple bishops that I didn’t absolutely love, but always respected each other. I have no desire to have the priesthood or any more responsibility. I have yo run crazy to do what I do.

        10. So do you expect the church to change its policy on gay marriage because of the outside pressures as well? God makes the changes, not men.

          1. Repsectfully, no. The family is an essential part of God’s consisting of a Father and a Mother.

          2. Amen to that Casey! Satan will stop at nothing to get our focus off the family and toward pride and power.

        11. Let’s start with ward councils and move on from there. Yes, the priesthood presides even there, but all members of the council should have equal voice on all matters of concern to the ward.

        12. Actually the whole “blacks not getting the priesthood” thing was a policy, not doctrine. Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to a black man named Abel if memory serves…

        13. Brigham Young’s policy of not giving the priesthood to blacks people wasn’t “God’s plan”, it was never church doctrine either. It was a racist practice reflecting the personal beliefs of Brigham Young and some of his successors. Joseph Smith ordained black people to the priesthood. That didn’t change until after Young became president and the church moved west to Utah. Consequently, Smith was an abolitionist and Young was an anti-abolitionist.

          Plural marriage on the other hand, was and IS a church doctrine, however it is illegal in most countries so it is not currently practiced. The doctrine of plural marriage was never rescinded, the practice was outlawed. Big difference.

        14. Ward council, ward welfare, stake council, stake welfare, and the equivalent councils at the general level all include women leaders. President Hinckley spoke about this too—that women counsel with and help make decisions from the ward level all the way up to the general level. That’s how the Church works.

        15. Also, sustaining a person to serve in a calling is not a democratic election. It’s not supposed to be—that’s not how the Lord’s restored church works. The Lord inspired people, including women, to be called to serve in certain positions. The congregation is asked to sustain that person, not vote them in. You really should learn what you’re talking about before you go spouting off.

      3. Not true….Prophets, General Authorities, Quorum of the 70….at which point is a woman involved?…….General Relief Society Presidency….that is a bit further down the line. There is a long line before you reach women in the church’s administration and though they might consult with each other that does not make it equal.

    2. Channing, are you serious? Women have a lot of say in the administration of this organization! (Do you really think men are “organized”?) Maybe if you were an ACTIVE member you’d know that! I’m a wife, a mom, I have an attitude (must be the red hair), oh I’m a royal descendant (again the red hair), I love cute high heels (dang it again it must be the red hair), I’m spunky (yup red hair), I love clothes and purses (yup red hair and being a Mormon), and I’m an active Mormon! (If you think the men actually run this church than you must be a man!) SMH LOL

      1. Ditto ginger-sister! I have never felt oppressed and never wanted MORE to do… goodness sakes, we practically run everything as it is, Tongue-in-cheek perhaps, but most men would be only too happy to do less. . .then complainers would be complaining that we have to do evergthing, and there is no division of responsibility.

        What I don’t get, is why folks want to belong to a church that professes divine leadership unequivocably, but also want and act like it is some sort of system of democracy. We don’t “vote” folks… we choose to sustain or not sustain.

        I agree with the blog…if there is inequality here, the women get lots more respect and peeks than any man

        6 generations and honored beyond measure. . .

        1. Women ABSOLUTELY do a lot of work in the church, probably most of the work. However, a job to do and doing it well is not the same thing as having authority. Women have very little decision making power, and even when they do it’s only regarding other women and children, and even then it’s approved by a man.

          Most LDS women are okay to live like this and convince themselves that it’s just awesome. Others have experienced things that feel very unequal and unfair and want to see changes. I personally do not care if being ordained is one of those changes or not, but we could most certainly do better in how we treat women in the church.

          1. I just got off a mission, and I have to say, the women in the church did a lot, in the ward councils they had just as much input as anyone else, and they seemed to support the effort of the ward better than the men, I’m greatful for all the hard work of the sisters in the church, when we lift where we stand we go far.

          2. LDS Woman, your patronising attitude is certainly not treating the women of the church with respect. To say that we ‘convince (ourselves) that it’s just awesome,’ is one of the more offensive things I have heard levelled at the intelligent, hard-working, talented female members of God’s church.

            I don’t like what is often published in the media about us, but I can handle it, because I realise that these people have no understanding or testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel. But to hear such invidious remarks from someone who calls herself my sister is extremely demeaning and offensive.

        2. As a ginger brother, I’m very proud of my Royal sisters above who have an awesome understanding of the Gospel. I would love to work with both of you in any ward council, etc… And I’m absolutely sure it’s because of women like you, who know how much your voice is needed, that the Church is as strong as it is.

    3. Woman are equal in importance, but different in roles. I was a single mom for many years and yet my Father in Heaven still blessed my children with out me having to have the priesthood. Just as men can not bare children but they get the blessings of having children, we may not hold the priesthood but we get the blessings of it. and in reverse just as no man wants the responsibly of giving birth but wishes they could take the pain from us. We should not want the responsibility that comes with holding the priesthood but as supporting and equal partners we can help bare up our priesthood holders.
      Also, I think that we should remember that we are promised that, “No blessing that ye are worthy of shall be denied you.” We do not need to hold the priesthood to receive all the blessing of it.
      Another thing that we need to think about is that the priesthood by definition is “God’s power here on earth” so if any person was to just say, “sure have the priesthood women” it wouldn’t change any oppression. The only thing that can cause us an oppression from God’s healing power is our worthiness, which is a matter between us and him.

    4. Have you been in a ward council meeting? The women get asked all kinds of things, and many times come up with the majority of the ideas.

      1. I’ve been in lots of them. Some bishops listen to their ward councils and others really don’t. I’ve been in both situatins. But let’s just say for the sake of argument that ward council is always an equal platform for the individuals in the room. Just a count of who is there tells a bit of a story. Let’s see, I’m counting 3 women in attendance (maybe a few more if you have sister missionaries in your ward) and 11 men (maybe a few more if you have elder missionaries).

        Your statement that they “get asked” a lot of things is actually really telling when you think about it. Speak when asked. They will listen. Do they act on what you say? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

        And they are having a LOT of other meetings where big decisions are made that do not involve even one woman.

        1. Lds woman it seems you have a lot of issues being a woman in general not just in the church. Have you ever been in a position of authority outside the church? Being a dictator when in a position of authority is a problem men and women share equally. I have been in authoritative positions in church callings as well as outside the church and I can tell you that you only ever have as much power as the amount of respect you earn from those you lead. I hope you find your “power” within yourself. If you have to ask others for power you will never really have any.

          1. I don’t feel that I really have issues being a woman. I love being a woman and I love having good men in my life. However, I have also been in a situation where power was abused by bishop and I felt I had no recourse as a woman, and that was a very frustrating situation indeed. I have had respect from those I lead in other situations (and yes, I have had leadership both in and out of the church from PTA to work situations). I have had several comments about how I’m coming off as bitter and if that’s how it comes off, I’m sorry. It comes from years of experience and frustration, and from serving many years in the church and finding very few situations where I was really empowered (and yes, maybe that makes me a little cynical or bitter). I love the church and I want it to be better. I don’t want the priesthood. I simply would like to see the church adapt its policies, procedures, and practices (which most of what we are talking about is really about) to make church a more comfortable place for women. I am not talking about doctrine, which I believe priesthood to be. I don’t support ordination of women although I most certainly support changes that would mean women becoming more involved in ward councils (more female representation), involvement in meetings besides ward council and presidency meetings, and hearing from our female leaders more often. There are things that can change without giving women the priesthood and that’s what I advocate. I also have a tender spot for my sisters who do seek ordination, for I suspect they have felt even more disenfranchised than I have.

        2. Don’t you think your actions/thoughts are kind of Lucifer-esque? I mean, what did he do in the premortal existence? Took the strong people, convinced them that he had better ideas that what God had planned, and drug them away. Very synonymous with what the whole feminist movement is doing here. Seeking more “power” and getting people to fall away from the church because of “inequality.” Come on, now. Wake up and quit.

    5. Every ward council I’ve been too has included women in the discussion. Maybe it was a man presiding over the meeting. But women were still contributing their input like any other member of the council. You have to understand also that God is the administrator in this church. All are given stuartships by him as he sees fit. If that was not true then the whole organization would be a waste.

    6. That is because you don’t understand Mormons. Women run the church through their men. I have never seen a larger group of men that are controlled by their women. Most of the Mormon men wouldn’t even go to church but the wife makes them.
      I guess you might call me an apostate of the Mormon church or at least an inactive member. What is funny to me is this is the least of the problems in the church. I don’t have the priesthood they want because if they are right you just end up in more trouble.

    7. That is a good question that a lot of non members don’t understand. The LDS missionaries or any bishop or stake president could explain this better than I can. If you really are interested in that answer and want to learn more about our church I would suggest talking to the missionaries. I hope this helps

    8. except they do….that’s what happens in ward council. i don’t know of any bishop that does not consult with the R.S. president on major decisions regarding the ward.

    9. If you’d ever been to a leadership meeting in our church you’d know most of the men can’t wait to leave and are asleep and the women talk the entire time. So I wouldn’t say they don’t have input

    10. Just like how the Fist Lady is not the President of the US but still has an input. The President listens to his wife’s council and considers her option when implementing any new changes. How many new policies have you seen that you KNOW were because of Michelle Obama?
      Those men who are in a position of administration in the Church listen to the counsel of thief wives and then act accordingly. As women, we may not hold the same positions as the men, but we definitely hold just as much power.

      1. How true that is.

        Our Ward has a very competent and open minded Bishop who listens to everyone, male or female and consults all the time with the RS president and her counselors. He teared up when our last RS president had to step down remarking that he appreciated her service and would miss her terribly. Our new RS president is just as hard working and has the Bishop’s ear as does his wife, so, I believe as a member here of 20 years (this past Feb) I have never seen a more balanced church than I have seen with this one since joining. It’s amazing how well run things are.

        Satan will always use even us members to tear down from within a perfect system. He’s tried tearing it down from the outside but the members are resilient and refuse to bend, the only other way to tear it down is by working on the members. A little power hungry here, failure to obey the commandments there, fudging on tithing, failure to attend the Temple, questioning the authorities and prophet, it all serves to decay and ruin a perfect system.

        Unfortunately Satan has won some of the battle by reading some of the comments here from members. We need to repent and get back to doing God’s work, not Satan’s.

    11. I am a woman and I have PLENTY of say in how the church is run. If you don’t think we do, then you don’t understand the church and especially the relief society. These Feminists give other Feminists (like me) a bad name when they don’t understand that different roles does NOT mean we are not equal.

    12. My wife said it best. 3+3=6 and so does 2+4 they are equal but different. Equally important but different roles. You obviously don’t understand or value the traditional role of women nurturing children as much as leadership. Real effect and real change occur by what good mothers teach young children.

    13. Have you ever been in a ward council meeting? Well, in most wards that I have been in, the women have PLENTY of say in how things go, and in many ways are the ones driving things and getting their way. And I LOVE his point! In every general conference and priesthood session, men are encouraged to be better husbands, and take care of their wives. It is much harder to find one where women are so harshly critiqued. The whole climate of the church is aimed at caring for women, and building them up. Second, the priesthood only gives men opportunities to serve. It is not some trophy to be held over others and oppress. There are plenty of scriptures describing the purpose and way that the priesthood is to be used. All of them are about kindness and service. And nobody can use the priesthood to bless themselves. I have plenty of opportunities to serve, and am happy that this responsibility placed on men. If you look at it in an eternal perspective, we are all here to become what we need to become to return back to our Heavenly Father. In my opinion, each of our roles and responsibilities are given to us to aid in that end. I honestly feel that men need the priesthood to fulfill their responsibility and become what they need to be on this earth. If we take even that from them, will they be able to fulfill that role and become the best men they can be? I have seen so many men step up and do things that aren’t comfortable for them because they recognize the weight of that responsibility and know that it is theirs. It can’t be passed off to someone else. Imagine for a minute that every woman had the priesthood too. Would they feel that responsibility and step up, would they have as many opportunities to grow and become? I don’t personally think so. I know through inspiration and through the things I have learned through the gospel that our Heavenly Father values women, possibly more than men if I can be so bold :). But more, he knows, and loves each of us individually and wants ALL of us to become what we have the potential to become. I believe that in his great wisdom he knows what experiences on this earth will lead to that end, and the church is structured in a necessary way to get us all there. If we will have faith, and open our hearts to His inspiration, he will help us to bloom in the way that will lead us and those around us to greater joy than we can at this time imagine. Satan on the other hand, wants us to be angry, he wants us to be unhappy, he wants us to feel left out and oppressed. Because in that state, he can keep us down and prevent us from becoming what he knows we have potential for. He can prevent the level of happiness that comes when we are free of those negative feelings. I know this, because I have allowed myself to be caught by those feelings. I am much happier when I identify where they come from and do something about it: seek answers from God, seek out his spirit, and then my heart is softened and I can see more clearly and feel more abundantly. And my questions and concerns are answered by He who knows all. All questions can be answered by inspiration. We don’t have to just blindly follow. But we do have to seek inspiration from the right place and in the right spirit, truly wanting to know.

    14. It’s simple. Anyone who believe this church might be true will recognize that the organization is set up according to God’s commands. Anyone who has a problem with this should take it up with God. Aka, “don’t shoot the messengers” it’s not their decision.

      1. Just because the GOSPEL that the LDS church was founded on is true, does not mean that every decisions and opinion presented by the bishops, stake presidents, apostles or even the church president are true or divinely inspired. The men in the leadership positions of the LDS church (thus the ones that decide how the ORGANIZATION is set up) are men and have and still do make mistakes – sometimes very stupid mistakes. God does not direct every single decision/belief/teaching of every single church leader – not even the church president. The church ORGANIZATION (distinct from the actual gospel) is certainly not perfect – if it was, there would not be leaders who commit excommunicate-able offenses or former members of the Quorum of the Seventy, such as Hans Mattsson, who come to doubt the truth of the church and leave the faith.

    15. Dear Channing, not to start a thing here, but I disagree with your basic premise about women do not have equal say in the administration of an organization. I have been ward and stake RS presidents, and I had plenty of say. I was never told no. In the spirit of helpful committee, I would inform, and they would say, “Okay, Cool!” In fact, I was told, this is your organization, let us know what you are doing so we can coordinate efforts and support.

    16. So it doesn t sound logic that jesus didn t call any women to be his disciple? No wonder why in the hole bible church was administered by men? and people still saying that is invented by mormons.

    17. Each month a bishops counsel meets to talk about the administration and organizations with in their ward or branch, that counsel is made up of men and women and I know for a fact women do most of the talking.

    18. I understand your confusion, and don’t think you were rude at all. Though it may be difficult to understand, in order to try, first seek to consider the LDS perspective that neither the women nor the men really have say in the administration of the organization. All important decisions are believed to be received from God; thus, though men hold administrative positions, they aren’t thought of as making noteworthy administrative decisions.

      Furthermore, there is the fundamental question of what the word “equality” means. To most in our society, equality probably denotes something like “equivalent opportunities for the exercise of personal will and the opportunity to influence or administrate the actions of others.” Along with this, most people likely view leaders in any endeavor, be it business, politics, or other, as those more qualified to occupy their leadership position. Otherwise someone else would be the leader. (If only things really worked this way!)

      This has no place in a Mormon definition of equality, however. Leadership in the LDS church never ought to imply superiority, as it by necessity does elsewhere (a CEO ought to be more qualified than others to have her/his position, for example, but this does not apply to an LDS Bishop, etc). Rather, those understanding the teachings of the Mormon church would probably define equality as people being of equal “status,” or in other words “worth,” with equal inherent human capacity to change the lives of others’ through truly efficacious means– personal interaction and positive example.

    19. But we as women do have a say! We also get administrative roles like Young Women’s, Relief Society, Primary and etc. Presidencies. We get to report and have meetings with other presidencies in the church including the men and have our say in things that go around in the church as well. Women do have leadership roles as well. We may not have the priesthood, well hold the priesthood, but we can all receive personal revelation. We women have specific roles in the church as well. And anytime we need blessings from the priesthood we are welcomed to it. We are equal!

    20. You have obviously have never sat in a ward council or PPI’s. To say women do not have equal say in administration is per naivety. I can think of very few examples where the men do not do as the women of the church ask. Men are in charge when the women let them be. IE: Just how did the church get the word of wisdom? To keep the peace men have long since learned do as the women tel…I mean ask and do it NOW!

    21. I agree, women would have to be involved in decision making all the way to top for that to occur. I would love to see just more women involved in councils and more leadership positions. How do you receive revelation for a group of people without understanding 50% of their experience? I think having women more involved would really benefit the church.

    22. I am a relief society president for my ward and basically, I am the right hand of my bishop, even though he has two counselors. I am treated as an equal to the bishopric in my ward. My ideas and thoughts are valued and heard!! I am grateful for my calling because I get to work closely with the priesthood to assist our member’s needs. I have never felt that I am less than the men in the church. On the contrary, I have felt respect and validation through all my callings and duties. I would never want to have the priesthood because, by nature, I already have God’s love and approval through my membership and motherhood responsibilities. I am a co-creator with God, like every other woman in this world. The priesthood is for the men so they can prove to The Lord that they can be faithful servants till the end. Women already have that just by being a woman. This is my thought on this subject…just my feelings. Thank you!

    23. Well, the priesthood is not only authority but it is responsibility. I as an LDS woman do not want the responsibility to go on a mission. Early priesthood holders in the church had to leave their families to serve. I do not want the responsibility of a Bishop to lead, council, and judge my congregation. I do not want the responsibility of having to get up in the middle of the night to go somewhere to give someone a blessing. We as women have to sacrifice our bodies, time, and energy to our children….it is good the men have responsibility too….I do not want their responsibility along with my own. I have all the blessings of the priesthood, ie baptism, healing of the sick, temple blessings. You don’t need to hold the priesthood to benefit from it. I have sat in many councils with bishops/ and stake pres and have given my opinion and they have listened and followed my suggestions. I do not feel neglected in the least bit. I do not want the priesthood I have enough to do.

    24. What the article says about budgets for the women’s organization and men’s organizations is true. I was a bishop for 5+ years and the combined budgets of the 2 men’s organizations averaged less than 10% of that of the women’s organization. Now I am in a role where I am at the beckon call of women who are leading 3 different organizations/events (a lot like marriage). Believe me! Women are in leadership roles, and they do an awesome job. Now, there is no doubt that some men are not honoring their wives, helping them to achieve their goals, and striving to make them comfortable, as real men ought…but if they come to priesthood meetings they’ll learn more about that. And if they’re better men than we are, then we need them to come and let it rub off on us! We’re all learning.

    25. We are equal we just have different responsibilities. If you look at all organized religion in the world. The LDS is the church that gives women so much teaching, authority and responsibility. There is young women’s presidency and relief society presidency that preside and take care of each other. And whenever there is a meeting with bishopric or even apostles with a decision that will impact them they always include the women in that discussion, it is called the counseling with counsels method. Which is when every member of the group shares there thoughts on the matter and then consider it when making the decision. I have been in those counsel meetings and the men always take into consideration the women’s points of view. Women hold so many callings within the church that has so much influences. Just because we don’t hold the priesthood doesn’t mean we have any less worth then the men. To hold the priesthood mean you hold the power of god to bless/help those in need on the earth. God gave men the priesthood to bless others and especially to bless the women of the church. Women who want to hold the priesthood within the church don’t understand the doctrine and principles of our the gospel. I don’t know if that helped, but if you want more you can go to youtube and there is a talk given by sheri Dew and she talks on this matter. She for which served as General Relief society president and worked hand and hand with the prophet and apostles of the church.

    26. I’m a man but that doesn’t mean my voice will be heard. Wouldn’t that make me less equal than the leaders of the church. Does the janitor of the school get to make decisions with the principle. No the janitor doesn’t. It’s not because of their gender it’s because of their role or position. His/her role of janitorial duty is as necessary as the principle but they should accept their part of the whole rather than expect the same authority as the principle

    27. I am a female and the president of an organization. A couple weeks ago my bishop called me with the names of some people the bishopric had spent a long time pondering over for callings in my organization. He left it to me and my presidency to say yea or nay. That said, he knows info about people in the ward that I don’t know. My presidency are still considering the names. I haven’t felt forced in any way and I know the bishopric will support us in our decision.

  3. Love this! A little humor is so good for the soul:) For the life of me I can’t understand why some women of our faith feel things are unfair. Men and women have their different but equally important roles. One being the ones chosen to bring children into the world. I cannot imagine anything more wonderful and sacred.

      1. Thank you for pointing that our Revo. Also Kristin bringing children into the world is something that happens during one short season of life.

          1. And another infantile response, not all women can adopt just like they can’t all have babies. Adoption is a complicated process, a number of things can disqualify, even something like an illness, try adopting after breast cancer if one hasn’t been in remission long enough then sorry can’t do it. Many can’t afford it. To suggest that motherhood is it for women is in itself highly sexist. And I am a Mother of both my own biological children as well as adopted!

        1. Sure, but once a mother, always a mother. That goes well beyond the short season of child bearing. Women, regardless of whether they bear
          children, take on other equally significant roles. And by that same token, so do men. I think people who expend ridiculous amounts of emotional energy comparing themselves to others and finding things like this to complain about haven’t yet figured out their purpose. They’d be better served using that energy in positive pursuits.

          1. Lisa many of us believe that Ordain Women is a positive pursuit, and we’ve arrived at this conclusion through a lot of fasting and prayer. Again learn about it before you dismiss it as a negative pursuit, really learn read all of the testimonies that are available on line, testimonies of both men and women. You might be surprised and find that the spirit moves you, even if you still don’t support it. I am a little shocked at how disrespectful so many are of something that is deeply spiritual to so many.

          2. So through a lot of fasting and prayer, you’ve determined that you know more of how the church should be ran than the prophet? Who exactly are you praying to?

        1. Go and actually learn about the OW movement before you start throwing around questions like that. They are asking the leadership of the church to prayerfully consider it, they are not making any demands, it isn’t about power it is about inclusion and equality, read Mathew 7:7 which sums it up, knock and the door will be opened, they are knocking and they are willing to wait. There is so much un necessary hostility towards this and it is very sad, not Christlike not even close.

          1. I think that is a great way for the movement to be considered (fasting and prayer) what I andante others have a problem with is that your the FIRST person who has actually made it a spiritual matter. Everyone else supporting the movement keeps complaining about not have enough decision/administrative power. When the majority of advocates are advocating more power for themselves it all reminds us of what satan asked for in the beginning…

          2. Indeed, there is too much un-Christlike behavior on all sides. Just as calling another’s response “infantile” is not a Christlike way to respond, whether it was or not. A caustic voice will never elicit peaceful change. Still, I’m so pleased that the OW movement has approached this problem they way they have. Those who believe that nothing in the world is to be questioned don’t understand the opportunities for growth that God has hidden in the study, prayer, and fasting required to discover his truth and will.

          3. You make me laugh. Having come across the OW ‘movement’ and having read about the leader of said movement, she has no intentions of knocking and waiting for an answer. She recently had a question/answer session where she clearly stated that she will continue asking no matter what answer the church leaders provide. That attitude sounds really familiar and reminds me of someone….oh yeah Martin Harris. OW will just keep asking, knocking or whatever else you want to call it just like Martin Harris. The OW ‘movement’ disregards God’s already established and organized church showing your true nature. You simply desire God’s power on earth, but are trying to pass it off and call it gender equality. Shame on you for not following God with faith and promoting dissentions from within the church. You have been deceived and I fear, do to your pride, you will continue to be deceived. If there is gender inequality in the church it could be due to a bad leader, women not stepping up appropriately (in appropriate times/meetings) or God simply designed different gender roles within the church. The OW movement only proposes that gender equality in the church can be achieved by being ordained, how absolute and one sided. I’ve also found that a large number of OW supporters are also members in support of same sex relationships. I will pray for you.

        2. You must have children otherwise you would not have posted such an unkind, thoughtless and hurtful statement. Having no children puts you even lower on the totem pole in the LDS church. Given the leadership roulette in the church you are often considered a child while the men get a free pass.

          1. It seems to me that the first issue that needs to be resolved is your personal sense of self-worth. As a gay man who will never be able to serve in Church “leadership” because I won’t be married or have children, I nevertheless understand that the personal angelic ministry I can have in changing the lives of others is of greater importance to me than any visible leadership. Sue, there is no totem pole. The leadership ladder is a social construct because of our upbringing in the world. You can do just as much good through faith and God’s help than any Bishop or Stake President can.

        3. Sigh. Yes, it does.

          I am a daughter, sister, aunt, and I work with special-needs children all day. I am not a mother, though. And to say that I am is patronizing and insulting to both mothers and childless women like me.

      2. no, again, no blessing you are worthy of will be denied you. may it be in this world or the next. and we need to remember that baring children does not just mean giving birth to them. we are more tender and give more skill at loving. Baring children includes raising them, loving them, teaching them of God’s love and of their value. This includes children who are not our own sometimes.
        We have a wonderful leader in the church who has never been married and never had children and yet she has loved so many children I am sure she will be a celestial mother in heaven!

  4. You spent a lot of time discussing numbers, the church claims 15 million members but you know as well as every other Latter Day Saint that only a fraction of those are actually active members, the active member number is closer to 5 million. For each of those 1300 women who signed the request there are many others who don’t feel safe putting themselves out there, if there are even ten for every one that signed it then the number goes up pretty quick. Have you even read about the Ordain Women movement? Do you even know what you are criticizing? It seems like you just want to complain about how hard it is to be an LDS man. The movement isn’t abut complaining, read up and you will see. There is nothing wrong with asking for change, Mathew 7:7, read it sir, you are seeing it in action! Instead of complaining about the LDS women who are simply “asking” put it all on your shelf and save it for another day, we’ve all had to put things on our shelves for years so its not that hard. Good luck to you.

    1. Not once in my post did I criticize the Ordain Women movement. I only said that it wasn’t representative of the majority of members. If the Prophet stands up and says that women may now receive the Priesthood then I will pray for myself and probably (given the fact that I’m not 100% against it for any personal reason) determine that it was the right thing to do given the source.

      What are you going to do if he doesn’t say that?

      As for my complaining, who wouldn’t want a padded seat? Matthew 7:7, right?

      1. You keep saying that you didn’t criticize the Ordain Women Movement but you did Andy.
        When you made this post, that was being critical of their assertion that there is gender equality. You were being dissapproving and mocking their concerns with your laundry list of things and made it as if the things they seek (priesthood or not) in acheiving gender equality are not favorable.

    2. Thanks Mom, you said it well. Make fun of the feminists all you want Andy, but there are actually a lot of active LDS women out there who aren’t as satisfied with their place in the church as you may think. They may not speak up for one reason or another but don’t take their silence as agreeing. It’s not. Many of us are trying to make changes, just believe there are different ways to go about it.

      1. Do you people even understand your argument? What your argument says is that the prophet is not leading the church the way you want it to be lead.
        So, either the prophet is a false prophet (i.e. not following the will of God, because if he was women would have the priesthood), or the church itself is not true.
        Either way, a petition to the prophet isn’t going to solve your problem. If this is the true church and you believe the doctrine of the church is wrong (i.e. that men have the priesthood and women don’t) then you petition God to change the doctrine, not the prophet.
        If the president of the church is free to do what he wants (i.e. change church doctrine because of a petition signed by members), then he is not a prophet of God leading God’s church, and why be a part of an untrue church?
        I believe the prophet understands trying to tell God how to lead the church, rather than being told by God how to lead the church. See Joseph Smith had a good friend who had given him lots of emotional and financial support. This good friend begged Joseph to let him show his wife a portion of the manuscript from the translation of the Book of Mormon. Joseph prayed and God said no. The friend was getting a lot of pressure from his wife about wasting his time and money on Joseph, and was sure if he could just show her some of the translation she would see how important the work was, and would stop pressuring him. He begged Joseph to ask God again if he might not show his wife the manuscript. Joseph went a second time to the Lord and was told no. But see, this didn’t sit well with this man. Didn’t the Lord know of the pressures he was getting at home? Couldn’t he understand how if she could only see the manuscript, read the words for herself she would come to accept what a wonderful work Joseph was doing? This was for the best, surely the Lord knew that. So he had Joseph ask again. Joseph didn’t want to ask again, he had already been told by God no, twice. But reluctantly he went to the Lord a third time. This time it took much longer, he struggled in prayer for a long time before he finally got an answer from the Lord. What was the answer from the Lord, well if you truly are a member of the church you know the answer. You also know the outcome. And you think that a true prophet of the Lord is going to change church doctrine just because you sign a petition telling him you desire him to? Not a true prophet, for a true prophet fears God not man or woman. IF God tells him the time has come for women to get a matriarchal priesthood, then he will let you know. But you need to take that up with God, not with the prophet.

        1. I tried to read your whole comment, but your insistence that you can tell others what they do and don’t believe made me stop. Beliefs are personal, and while I believe that the priesthood is intended for men and I am NOT part of the ordain movement — I also believe that those who are part of the ordain movement have genuine testimonies. I would strongly encourage you not to demean the testimony of your fellow brothers and sisters. It is not within the keepings of Christ’s teachings.

        2. Well said. Thank you. I appreciate your analogy. I’m active, RS president, do not want the priesthood, never heard of the ordained women movement, have no children, over 40 still single, do not feel oppressed, want to be married and sealed for time & eternity in this life, may never happen.

          As for equality, I’m sure if theyask the brothers could get the soft chairs that go flat after a few years, is It in the handbook No tablecloth, podium, or handouts while in priesthood?.Would the fathers lounge become another place for errant young men to hide during church? I hid in the mothers lounge.

          Speaking for myself, I don’t need to have the ordination of the priesthood for the blessing.

        3. AMEN!! Finally a spot-on valid argument. Thank you! I wish all the petitioners could read this.

    3. The problem with throwing around number not based on actual data is that it is all assumptions, and you know what assuming does… That being said, of those 1,300 signatures, a significant number of those come from women who are not active in the church, or who are not member of the church anymore. So for every figure that you give to support your side without real data, there are other figures that can equally give support to the other side of the situation.

      1. Have you checked the membership status of all of the people who signed the document Jack? I didn’t think so, you are making an assumption that people who already left the church signed, and if an inactive member signed so they are still a member. Have any of you considered how many young members want equality? Yeah the youth, and there are many that support this movement who are leaders of the youth, and primary teachers, this isn’t something that can just be brushed aside!

        1. Actually I know a few inactive who have signed the petition. If I know a few of them, imagine how many more inactive/less active signed.

          1. I know a few active who have signed the petition. If I know a few of them, imagine how many more active signed.

            Also, have you considered why people might have become inactive in the first place?

    4. I think you are in the wrong church. There are many wonderful churches that give women the position you are seeking. Women in the OW clearly do not accept the doctrine of the Mormon Church, so why do you stay? Maybe start your own version like the FLDS . Maybe the PLDS…The Progressive Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Then you can have female leadership. Why are members of OW so reluctant to leave the church? Because they think its true? If so… Then they need to accept and sustain the structure. Having served in many a Relief Society presidency I can say without any doubt that women hold a great deal of authority and responsibility in the church. Ask any RS president and I’m sure she will say it’s a very big, sometimes overwhelming job. Ask the General RS president and I’m sure she would confirm that she has a great deal of authority, makes many important decisions and even counsels with the Prophet and Apostles. In fact the OW women may not realize there is a whole General RS Board that makes important and impactful decisions. They don’t sit on the stand at General Conference, but they are still important and have a great deal of impact on the leadership of the church. I don’t know why the priesthood is seen as some kind of status symbol? It is available to everyone and blesses our lives regardless of gender. But seriously… If you don’t think women are treated right, and the leadership of the church are not properly and/or fairly running the church…why do you stay?

      1. Sorry…the above post was directed at the women on here who are offended by the church and it’s leadership structure.

      2. That’s a very Christlike attitude. “You don’t like it? Leave”. So many hateful and resentful comments on this blog. The blog post itself is rude and patronizing. There’s nothing wrong with having questions about your own church. There are many inequalities in the church, you’re kidding yourself if you say otherwise. Personally, I don’t need the priesthood as a woman, but I can empathize with those who have that desire, or feel that need. The church has changed it’s position and policy on many things while it’s been around. African Americans at one time held the priesthood (pre-1978) and then it was inexplicably revoked (see official declaration 2, and it’s new heading in the online scripture version).There are many callings in the church that are for priesthood holders only, but for what reason?Why are only priesthood holders ward clerks? Why only men Sunday School presidents? What does holding the priesthood have to do with these callings? And yes, I think it should go both ways – why not a man be a Primary president or counselor? I think some of these inequalities can be changed simply with policy change, not doctrine change. Anyway, my main point is that as members of the Lords church, we should mourn with those who mourn, comfort those who stand in need of comfort – not mock those who mourn over things that you think they should be fine with.

    5. And you are assuming that only active members signed the petition. Was there a requirement to show your temple recommend to sign? I think not.

    6. I love facts. The only fact either of side of the argument has is the total number of members and signees.
      Technically Andy is assuming with the female breakdown, another poster is assuming that many of the signees may be active members, and Mom is assuming the number of active members, and some other poster that there are large numbers of members sharing this belief (10 to 1 number I believe).
      At the end of the day you can always find a fact or number to back your preconceived notion. The key is being able to evaluate data in an unbiased way (which very few are capable of doing, especially on such an emotional topic).

  5. “How come there’s a mother’s lounge but not a father’s lounge? Women get to nurse and feed their baby in a dark, quiet room while fathers have to walk around the Church looking for an empty classroom or use the “stand-and-sway” method to put babies to sleep. Even if we find an unused classroom, we don’t have the rocking chair.” BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE TO WHIP OUT A PRIVATE PART OF YOUR BODY TO FEED YOUR CHILD, DUMBASS. If that changes, by all means, have a private room to take care of your child in. But until then… cool your jets hombre.

  6. My husband has always felt jilted by the lack of a Father’s lounge. And I personally am way too busy to add “Priesthood Responsibilities” to my list of things to do. I loved your post!

  7. I enjoyed this post, Andy. It seems to be circulating on Facebook, which is how I saw it. I am a blogger, too. It is funny how people sometimes can interpret what you say in very weird ways. I read some of the comments and I just want to say that I get what you were going for with this post. I thought it was funny and well written. I will show this to my husband. I think he will love it!

    1. Thanks Amanda. I kind of feel like the obnoxious guy at the party who doesn’t understand why people can’t just take a joke. I guess it’s true what they say, “haters gonna hate.”

      1. Andy – here’s why people can’t take your joke. I have a friend like you – thinks he’s hilarious – often is – likes to poke fun at anyone and everyone for a laugh, but doesn’t understand how sometimes, it’s crossing a line. Because he thinks it’s funny. Because he wouldn’t be offended if the roles were reversed.
        But here’s the thing – this is a subject that is near and dear to people’s hearts. I’m not necessarily talking about ordaining women, just the discussion of gender equality period. And then you take a very serious issue, that causes great pain and heartache for many women, and make a big joke out of it – you are making fun of all the women (and men if they are out there) who struggle with this issue on a daily basis. It’s not funny, it’s hurtful. It’s offensive and belittling and just mean. The fact that you would even jokingly imply that there is gender inequality on the flip side is so patronizing and ridiculous. It’s like when white people go on about reverse racism. Or Christians blather on about the “oppressed Christian.” Because anything one of those groups has experienced could really compare to the pain and humiliation that other groups have ever gone through? Laughable.

        As for all the commenters on here claiming that “these women” belong to the wrong church…This is their church too. And last time I checked, the message was that; a)This church is for EVERYONE (oh except gays and women who want the Priesthood.) and b) This is the only true church. I don’t know anything about who signed the petition, their activity or membership or intent or any of that. But what I do know is that there are A LOT – like almost every woman in the church I’ve talked to – of women who feel that something needs to change, however small. That their voice is not always heard. That we are sometimes second class citizens in a church that we love with all our hearts. But according to the commenters on your blog, people who are struggling, people who are hurting should just shut-up or leave. Or both. Wow. Is this really the organization I belong to? I keep telling myself that it’s the gospel I love, not the organization. That people are imperfect and human. Why can’t we all just be a little more empathetic, a little more patient and A LOT more kind?

        You say, haters gonna hate – but you weren’t talking about yourself, or the people on this comment thread that quickly type in an insulting thought. It’s true, haters gonna hate. But why is there any hate at all? Why can’t we all seek to understand each other with love and kindness, and not satirical blog posts that get people to laugh at a tender and very real and serious issue that plagues many of your brothers and sisters?

        That’s why your joke isn’t very funny Andy. I’m wondering if you have all seen that new Mormon video about bullying? This is all reminding me of that, but we aren’t in high school anymore. And that makes it all the more frightening.

  8. Since the most recent numbers estimate only 30% church activity, and many church members around the world aren’t on the internet, this changes your numbers quite a bit.
    I don’t care much about having the priesthood either way, and have only remotely followed this issue, but as a lifelong pioneer stock Mormon woman I am appalled at how you have made light of inequality and pain. This isn’t a joke for these women. It isn’t some light hearted attempt at attention. Equating a woman’s desperation, sadness, and pain with PADDED CHAIRS is ridiculous and cruel.

    1. Thank you SJ! My sentiments exactly! The “mens request list” was ridiculous & verging on seriously offensive! Comparing materialistic items like padded chairs & quiet nursing rooms to holding the “priesthood”? Seriously? This attitude is exactly why LDS women have been oppressed, & I believe will continue to be oppressed with no end in sight. Attention seeking? Wow!!!! Someone is clearly very out of touch with reality! If this blog-post did anything, it was at the very least, perpetuating the problem.

    2. Just wanted to say that I agree with SJ. This article is so offensive and the fact that you can even write it speaks volumes about the way men see women in the church. Way to prove our point Andy. So dismissive of some very real concerns of active, believing members of the church.

      1. Quite the assumption you are making, that this one article written by one person ‘speaks volumes about the way men see women in the church.’ As a man you don’t know and have never met, I’m pretty sure you don’t know anything about the way I view women in the church. I agree that this article pokes at women who believe they should have the priesthood, but your comment is just as inappropriate by claiming to know what men in the church think of women.

        1. I’m sorry I missed a word Travis. That should have said “some men”. I don’t pretend to speak for all men in the church but Andy has proved a point here. There are men in the church who think that women asking for equality are just frivolous and petty. I’ve been an active member of the church for my entire life and I’ve seen some things that are very problematic when it comes to women’s issues. It’s always bothered me and I’m so grateful there are other women out there that feel the same way and are starting to speak up. That being said there are a lot of amazing men in the church who don’t treat women like second class citizens.

  9. Loved your ideas! And I’ve always asked why we get padded chairs and the guys don’t – and was told something about scouts and throwing things around. Maybe that’s why – - – But really, I’ve always believed that each gender has it’s responsibilities. Why don’t we send a petition around to make men get pregnant? Because that’s not the way it’s supposed to be. And if all that .02% really want the power, go become a CEO of something.

    1. Yeah, once you can find a way to help men become pregnant, let us know. Also let us know when you find the biological requirement to receive the priesthood.

      1. It was given by divine revelation from our prophets.. If you don’t believe that, then why do you believe anything else they’ve testified to? Since when has this church become, “The only true church… Except this…”?? I see Alpine church advertised on the freeway as a church that can change for you. Sounds more like what Ordain Women is looking for…

  10. Well Andy this post got you a new female follower. You’re hilarious! As for equality in the church, the reason why there are only a tiny 0.02 % of signatures on the petition, is because the VAST majority of us LDS woman do not feel oppressed in the least. We do not believe that our men are put before or above us, nor do we put ourselves above god. The idea that women can’t have the priesthood is a fallacy. Women perform priesthood ordinances in the temples all the time. Sure we don’t do it on a regular basis but as I always say “You gotta give the guys something to do!”

    1. Take off your blinders Ruth and you will see that there are far more LDS women than you think that support this, just because we all didn’t sign the document doesn’t mean we aren’t supportive.

      1. The classic “take off your blinders and you will see the light” speech. Reminds me of the ridiculous talks with my mom’s humanist uncle.

    2. This is exactly how I feel. I don’t understand everything about why the Lord’s church is organized the way it is, but I’ve served in enough leadership callings to know that sometimes you just delegate and it’s nothing personal.
      Also, my husband has said so many things on this list, well done!

  11. This is complete and utter crap. Your making light of a significant gender equality issue with our church. Yes, that’s right I’m a life time strong member and my whole life as a woman of the church I have been cheated our of opportunities simply because I am a woman. Do I particularly want the priesthood? Probably not, but I would like a say in my church and not be trodden down by men who have no right to their “authority” over me. God gave me a brain and I believe he would want me to use it.

    1. You raise a serious topic so I’ll give you a serious answer. Starting with a question: what men are using their Priesthood to exercise “authority” over you? I’m not. Hopefully your local leaders aren’t. I assume they aren’t or you would probably have even more words for me. General Conference is filled with talks about the importance of women in our Church. What once felt like a primitive, male-dominated mindset is being replaced by talks about respecting women who choose (or are forced by circumstance) to work rather than stay at home. Gender equality will always be an issue for some because those people don’t see that equality can come in the form of different roles/responsibilities.

      Here’s my final thought: If the presiding authorities came to us and said, “We’ve prayed about women receiving the priesthood each individually and as a group and the answer is that women have different, equally as sacred, roles than men, but those roles do not require them to receive the Priesthood”, then would that be good enough for everyone? Would we stop putting our names on manifestos and petitions? Then finally, I would ask, “haven’t they been saying that all along?”

      1. Here is the crux of the issue, I think. That there are women who believe that they are not equal to men. Who the heck told them that, and why did they believe it? I have never, ever been preached in church that because I do not hold the Priesthood directly, that I am not as important nor equal to a man. And, if they were told that by a man who (supposedly) holds the Priesthood, then he was exercising it improperly, and therefore it was null.
        I think that the persons who are asking for the Priesthood to be shared among the sexes do not truly understand the Priesthood. An in-depth study of it, how it works, and the proper exercising of it should make it clearer to those that are questioning it.
        I have available to me, every single blessing that is available through the Priesthood. Nothing is withheld from anyone.
        I, too, hope that the Prophet can address this issue. However, I can’t think of a single event in the history of the gospel when the Lord has been pestered and he gave a positive response.
        There are some points that are valid, I think. And I think that there are absolutely things we can do better in the church. Having a woman sit in on an interview with a woman is perhaps one of those things that would be smart (if the interviewee wants). We can improve and evolve.
        I am happy to have found your blog. It gave me a lighter moment. And I would happily bring you a padded chair to EQ meeting.

        1. AMEN!! We women aren’t less than nor did anyone I know ever tell me this! It makes me sad actually for those women, because it isn’t the men holding them back nor is it The Lord! They are holding themselves back! I’m in primary so I don’t get padded chairs either, and thank goodness I’m still thin at my age so I can sit in Frodo’s seat until the magic returns.. Don’t know what I was doing in middle earth but somehow I got the hobbit seat and he’s off into the west! (Ha Ha see what I did there? ;) )

    2. What opportunities are you being cheated out of, what would you like a say in and how are you being trodden down and by whom? I’m not trying to be contentious…. I just really do not understand where you are coming from.

      Please answer in specifics and how men differ in the specific subject in question.

      1. Just ONE example Eric. One of many…
        Imagine you are a woman who has committed some sort of sexual sin. Now you have to go into a room full of 14 men, ALONE, and repeat, in detail, all about your exploits. Then, these 14 MEN are going to decide your spiritual fate. If you can’t see how oppressive and frightening that is, than you need to open your eyes a little bit.
        Yes, women serve in leadership positions. And yes, sometimes the men who serve “above” us or “over” us, listen to us. Sometimes, if we are super lucky, they might even invite one of us into PEC. That doesn’t mean that we always feel heard, or that we even have a voice, or that we have any power over ourselves and our children. This is not about POWER or CONTROL, it’s about empowerment. My husband is supposed to be my voice in the church? How offensive. How would you like it if the roles were reversed and your wife was the one who spoke for you, that the RS president got to make decisions about what the EQ was doing, or the YM’s program? Some women on here say that they have never felt oppressed or that they always have a voice. And some men say that they think the church is run by women through men. Like the US president. (Are you kidding me? That’s the most offensive and patronizing thing.) Good for you women and your male leaders that you have never felt this way. But this is NOT universal. And shame on you for not hearing the plight of your sisters – and I mean, really hearing. Shame on you for assuming that your experience is the experience of all women in the gospel. Shame on you for not wanting to reach out and help women all over that are hurting, that feel that they DON’T have a voice. I’m not talking about ordaining women. I’m talking about listening to women who just want to be heard. For once.

        1. Hmm.. your example is pointless because your assuming it is easier for a man to go in front of 14 other men and tell them the same things. ‘Shame on you’ for thinking that it is easier for men to do this compared to women. Keep serious sins to a minimum and this won’t be a problem for men or women.

          1. I think you’re missing the point Janice. It’s not supposed to be easy to go in front of anyone and tell them your sins but you honestly don’t see a problem with a woman being asked to discuss her sexual sins in a room full of men with no other women present? Or for a woman to go into a room alone with one man to discuss her sexual sins with no other women present?

          2. It *is* easier. You don’t even have to commit a sexual sin to know that it’s easier to discuss awkward sexual topics with someone of the same gender. If teenage boys had to have chastity talks and interviews with the RS president instead of the bishop, a lot of them would probably try to hand their priesthood off to the girls to avoid it.

        2. So How is a husband suppose to treat His wife? He is suppose to Love her, to respect her, to listen to her, to never EVEEER make one single decision without his wife`s previous approvement, He is suppose to forget about himself and put his wife as the first priority after God, He should think and rethink if Hes having a hard time to understand her. In case of desagreement they should talk, pray, read, love and always seek for the benefit of each other. A husband should be a good example to his children in How to treat his wife as a Princes. After All, wifes are the foundation right? YET, For organization, The Man is the voice of the family, He is the one who represents the whole family. The family usually bear his name. This is a way in which The whole family becomes ONE, One in name, in purpose, in love, in goals. Every single person of the family is required, is needed in order to succeed. Its a matter of Heavenly organization the why priesthood holders are MEN. In addition to that, Priesthood holders are those who need to be worked up, refined. So, this is my knowlegde and testimony regarding this. I hope you understand I am not imposing but sharing with you my dear thoughts and points of view.

        3. I think you over sensationalize the topic. I’ve served on said councils discussed here and it has always been done in a spirit of love. If a woman wanted a close friend, or mother, or some other person to come into the council for support, she was never denied that. The church trains and teaches the leaders to ere on the side of mercy. If there are some women who feel that they haven’t been heard, then I feel bad for them. But having seen both sides of it, there are many, men and women, who just don’t want to accept the answer that comes and “kick against the pricks” because they won’t accept the consequences of their own decisions and believe they are handed down from MEN.

    3. Wow Amber,
      your whole life you have been “cheated” out of opportunities because you’re a women in the church? What “opportunities” revolve around the church that are so important? I guess since I’m not a Utah Mormon I don’t understand all of this. My life revolves around my religion, not my church. I am a life long woman member of the Church of Jesus Christ. I don’t comprehend you at all. And, honestly I don’t believe there is a gender inequality issue in our church. I have NEVER felt trodden down or that men or anyone else have “authority” over me, including my husband. Perhaps your issues are internal and have nothing to do with the church. God did give you a brain. Is the church the only place on earth for you to serve? Is this the only way for you to make the world a better place? There are many places to let you light shine and church is a very tiny part of that.

  12. I want to be able to do my home teaching by sending a card or leaving a loaf of zukinni bread on the door step like my wife.

    1. I will put the zucchini bread into my petition with only one caveat, it must be delivered fully intact. (Of course that comes with a second caveat that allows you to pre-slice the bread and remove the ends. Nobody likes the ends anyway, right?)

    2. I can’t speak for every woman but I’d much prefer that than a monthly visit. I also think it’d be great for men to have activities, child care, father’s room, etc. I’m all for equal status in the childcare dept. (along with making it easier for single dads).

      1. Hey, I’m all for that too. We share a building with two other wards. The sisters always get their Relief Society room, but the Elders and High Priests have no idea where they are going to meet from week to week. Some weeks we have to negotiate for a room, next week we may have to meet in the crawl space under the building – just put down some mats. If the sisters want the priesthood, they can have it. It’s a lot of work, with zero recognition or reward…except the reward of keeping my wife for eternity if I’m faithful to it…but, I’ll take that :-)

    1. I will agree with this! But only if I can check the scores too so tell me do I need a tie on or a coat and tie? Some of us women need to know the scores too!

  13. That’s a good argument Andy but there isn’t an inequality in the LDS Church because women are a part of the priesthood. Men and women share the priesthood and yes they have different duties but none the less equal when it comes to responsibility. I personally could not handle the duties of the Relief Society or Primary, I would fail miserably. The priesthood is a shared responsility of both men and women for our Lord Jesus Christ. My thoughts on the matter so if there is a differing point than share it. We’ll listen right Andy?

    1. Well geez, if you wanna get all spiritual about it… I don’t think these women care about “shared responsibility”. They want the power! (Picture me saying it in the He-Man cartoon voice from the 80s)

      1. I guess my life doesn’t revolve around my calling enough to care who’s making the decisions. My religion is internal. The church is simply the vehicle for my religion. I’m happy to serve but most of my religiosity is/are things I do away from church. Most local church leaders are good. They want to do what’s best for the ward. They aren’t on a power trip. The time they put in over and above they’re job is astonishing. I know it’s a struggle for them to find the time to do all that needs to be done. I certainly don’t wish for that nor do I understand others wanting it.
        I’m happy with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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